1. Take two quotes from the reading (pp 39-47) and ask a question based off them, as we've been practicing.
2. Then take another student's question and take 10 minutes to try answering it. First person to post has no question to answer!
To post, select "Comments." You don't need to log in: select "Name/URL" and type your name.
This is not for a grade (other than having done it thoroughly), but you will have another mini-essay Monday night. If you are happy with your quotes and question, you can turn them into your essay. Or if you like an idea you discover as you answer another student's question, you can turn that into your essay.
"You see, they are so accustomed to have their mamma with them," Nurse (40)
ReplyDelete"You are still very like a child in many things…" Mrs. Linde (42)
Do Nora's children really need her in their lives and if so, how can she be a good mother to them when she is still seen so much as a child?
Reply: Nora's children need their mother in their lives. She can be a good mother only if she breaks this image of her being a child. In order to do so, she would need to tend to her children more, and stop being the squirrel of the house. Without doing so, her children will continue to grow more and more distant.
DeleteHelmer: "Was that the dressmaker?"
Nora: "No, it was Christine, she is helping me to put my dress in order. You will see I shall look quite smart (44)."
Nora: "You must do as I ask; You must let Krogstad keep his post in the bank." (44)
How does Nora handle these situations similarly and what common theme is related with these quotes?
When talking to Helmer in the first scenario, Nora speaks the truth, saying that Christine was there helping out with the dress. Nora leaves out any word of the fact that they were talking about her secret, which effectively gave Helmer no thought that there was any deceiving going on. In the second quote, Nora once again speaks nothing but the truth, leaving out why she truly wants Krogstad to keep his post. Trickery is a common theme between these two scenarios. Specifically, tricking someone by telling a partial truth to avoid suspicion.
Delete^ that was a response to Fahrawn's question.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Linde: "You are still very like a child in many things"(42).
ReplyDeleteNora: "This fellow writes in the most scurrilous newspapers... He can do you an unspeakable amount of harm. I am frightened to death of him" (45).
Does Nora make the correct decision when she chooses to lie to Torvald about her real reason to help Krogstad, or is avoiding the truth a childish mistake?
She does not make the correct decision by choosing to lie to Torvald. It is a childish mistake because it would have been a smarter choice to tell Torvald the truth herself before there is any chance of him finding out from Krogstad. If Torvald does not find out from Nora herself, he will be even more devastated. By telling him the truth, Nora could lessen the blow and Torvald could, at least, appreciate her honesty.
DeleteNora: "And if my little ones had no other mother, I am sure you would--- What nonsense I am talking!"
ReplyDeleteNora: "He was capable of doing it. He will do it. He will do it in spite of everything.--- No, not that! Never, never! Anything rather than that!"
What do you think will be the final reason for Nora's departure at the end of the play? Will she leave because she must keep her secret, or will she leave because the terrible truth is outed to Torvald?
First quote: page 40
DeleteSecond quote: page 47
I think that Nora's final reason for departure will be a mixture of both reasons. For one, Nora does not feel safe as it is with the secret looming above her, threatening to crash down upon her. I think that she is very afraid of Torvald, and is terrified of what he would do to her after he had placed so much trust into her being one hundred percent truthful to him. On the other hand, she knows that no matter what she does, Tovald is bound to find out the secret from Krogstad, so she will leave to escape his anger.
Delete"Torvald is so absurdly fond of me that he wants me absolutely to himself, as he says. At first he used to seem almost jealous if I mentioned any of the dear folk at home, so naturally I gave up doing so" (42).
ReplyDelete"My dear Nora, I can forgive the anxiety you are in, although really it is an insult to me.. But I do forgive you nevertheless, because it is such eloquent witness to your great love for me" (46).
How does Helmer's treatment towards Nora influence her deceit?
Helmer worships Nora and his overwhelming love for her makes her feel safe and happy. Though this is a good thing, his love for her also lets her get away with more. Helmer says "I can forvive the anxiety you are in..." he can forgive her because of his love for her. I think that Helmers treatments towards Nora helps her to feel like everything that she is doing is valid and morally correct. She feels like she is only forging signatures and lying to Helmer because she loves her husband so even though the actions that she is performing or wrong, she feels justified because of Helmer's love for her and vise versa.
Delete"Yes, but nurse, I shall not be able to be so much with them now as I was before" (40).
ReplyDelete"And if my little ones had no other mother, I am sure you would-What nonsense I am talking!" (40).
Is Nora subconsciously thinking about leaving Helmer and her children? Why else would she be contemplating the mother figure in her children's lives if she was absent?
Yes Nora is subconsciously thinking about leaving her family. She is thinking that if she leaves she will want the children to have a more normal life when they grow by having the nurse as a mother figure. The nurse was like a mother to her, and knows that she would be a good mother figure to them. She wants to be a good mother like the Nurse was to her, but after she heard Helmer's opinion on how a lying mother corrupts the child she had convinced herself that she doesn't want to do that to ehr childrena dn can never be the mother to them she wishes to be. She is thinking about leaving her family because of how much Helmer stressed that a corrupt mother leads to corrupt children and she doe not want that to be the future of her children, so she sees the only way to spare them is to limit the amount of contact she has with them.
DeleteKnowing that Helmer has jsut fired Krogstad, do you believe it would be better for Nora to just go ahead and tell him how she ahs been lying to him or try to make up fro it now by acting like everytign is fine and stressing her love for him and jsut waiting for Krogstad to tell him?
ReplyDelete"Yes Torvald, I can't get along a bit without your help." (36)
"Oh, for soem help, some way out of it!" (47)
It is very true that Nora is dependant on Helmer, and when she cannot get his help, she does not know where to turn. For this reason it seems fair enough that she try to make it up to him in hopes that Krogstad will decide not to tell. However, this will only perpetuate her lie, and her apparent anxiety at keeping it makes it seem more sensible to simply tell her husband the truth. It would most likely be worse if Krogstad were to tell Helmer, as Krogstad told Nora.
DeleteI personally think that it would be amuch better idea for Nora to tell Helmer herself, even though she knows very well that Krosgard will now tell him. If I were in Helmer's position, i would much rather hear it from the mouth of my wife who actually committed the fraud and borrowed the money than to have the person I just fired come along and tell me he blackmailed my wife into keeping him around. If that happened, I would feel like I had been betrayed by my own wife whereas if she came out and told me, there would be a much better chance of me forgiving her. Plus if she keeps stressing her love to him, he'll just think she's trying to suck up and get out of it easy.
Delete"Do you think they would forget their mother if she went away altogether?" (40)
ReplyDelete"You will see I am man enough to take everything upon myself... You will never have to do that." (46-47)
How does conflict lead to Nora's two different internal (or in this case external) voices?
“His moral failing I might perhaps have overlooked, if necessary” (45)
ReplyDelete“And that is as it should be, my own darling Nora. Come what will, you may be sure I shall have both courage and strength if they be needed. You will see I am man enough to take everything upon myself” (46)
If Helmer were to find that Nora has lied to him for all this time, do you think he would he want her to leave his house, or do you think he would be willing to look past her "moral failings"?
Helmer and Nora have been together for a good amount of time, and as far as we know there have not been any major quarrels between them. When Helmer finds out about her deceit it will be very difficult for him to decide. However, because of the general lack of respect that he shows Nora I believe that he will not be able to forgive her. He will likely force her out, but if he does not I believe that he will become so hostile that Nora will want to leave on her own.
DeleteIf Helmer uncovered the truth behind Nora's actions, no, I do not think he would overlook her "moral failings" because relationships have to have trust within them in order to function. Knowing that Nora has gone on for so long keeping such a big secret to herself says a lot about her character. If it was something so bad to where she felt she could not share it with her own husband, she should not have done it in the first place. Now that Helmer knows that Nora lacks this sense of right and wrong and trust, he is left with very little hope for their future together. Personally, I do not think that Nora has given him enough throughout the course of their marriage for him to want to stay with her.
Deletethat was a reply to Harrison's question by the way...
DeleteHow does Nora's attitude towards Doctor Rank's condition change, and what does it say about her?
ReplyDelete"I must tell you he suffers from a horrible disease. He has consumption of the spine, poor creature." (41)
"You are quite absurd to-day. And I wanted you so much to be in a really good humor." (48)
When talking to Mrs. Linde about Rank, Nora pities him, talking about how he has a horrible disease and since there's no cure, he needs attention as he will die soon. However, as soon as Nora finds out that Rank wants to bar Helmer from his sick-room, she becomes annoyed at him, stating how he is simply being crazy today, and she wish he would take this news of him being about to die with better humor. This shows how she doesn't really feel like Rank deserves pity, she is just saying it around other people so she seems more sympathetic. She also feels like Rank should remain happy with his life even with it being so bleak, maybe because she doesn't want to feel sorry for him.
DeleteNORA: "Torvald is so absurdly fond of me that he wants me absolutely to himself, as he says" (42).
ReplyDeleteNORA: "Splendid! But don't you think it is nice of me, too, to do as you wish?" (44).
If Nora is truly confident that Helmer is so in love with her then why does she always seek reassurance that he approves of or appreciates whatever it is she's doing?
How far do you think Nora will go to hide the truth about the money fraud from Torvald? Will it become so extreme that it eventually makes her leave?
ReplyDelete"That isn't the reason Torvald. It is for your own sake. This fellow writes in the most scurrilous newspapers; you have told me so yourslef. He can do you an unspeakable amount of harm. I am frightened to death of him."
"He was capable of doing it. He will do it inspite of everything.-No, not htat! Never, never! Anything rather than that!"
"Torvald wants me to go as a Neapolitan Fisher-girl, and dance the Tarantell that I learnt at Capri." (41)
ReplyDelete"Is it to get about now that the new manager has changed his mind at his wife's bidding-" (45).
How does Torvald's treatment of his wife change depending on what others think?