Monday, April 8, 2013
Steppenwolf (part 2)
PART 2: Pages 180 ("The inscription") to 190 ("vacancy").
INSTRUCTIONS: The final scenes at the Magic Theater are, in my opinion, what make the book extraordinary. They're also intentionally confusing, for Harry as well as for us readers. As a group, let's help each other find meaning in these scenes.
Both of your two posts need the following:
- One quote from the pages indicated above with a connection you explore to something else from the book or from another book we've read.
- One quote from the pages indicated that seems interesting but confuses you. Explain why it interests you and why it confuses you. Ask a question that your peers can explore.
- Respond to at least one other post on this section. (First person to post gets a break.)
Publish your posts in reply to this one.
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"Other placards, on the other hand, in wonderful colors and magnificently phrased, warned all those who had a stake in the country and some share of prudence (in more moderate and less childish terms which testified to the remarkable cleverness and intellect of those who had composed them) against the rising tide of anarchy" (180)
ReplyDeleteThis quote reminds me of the propoganda in We. The government or people of this world coat even the worst of words in a beautiful facade and control minds with them. These beautiful posters are like the daily occurences in We, designed to make inhabitants believe that everything is better than it seems, that violence is okay, and that war is necessary and joyful. The people in We and in this magical world both are muted to the truth and joyfully take part in destruction and war.
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DeleteThis muting to the truth, and Harry taking part in the war is interesting, because we know that Harry is not really a bad person, however I find that we are not supposed to think of the war as a real war. The muting to truth, represented in these placards, and the whole scene, seems to be a very exaggerated way of telling us that Harry should surrender himself and accept that he can be influenced by morally uncertain things, but still be a joyful, good person.
Delete"In every eye I saw the unconcealed spark of destruction and murder, and in mine too these wild red roses bloomed as rank and high, and sparkled as brightly. I joined the battle joyfully."
ReplyDeleteThis quote shows us that Harry accepts his personality has influence from multiple sources. Harry finds it hard at first to accept that his personality is influenced by the herd, and that their values may not actually be values that he would have, had he come up with the values on his own, however, now, we see at a very extreme level, Harry accepting that his personality could be negatively impacted, shown through Harry seeing everyone else destroying themselves, and him jumping in, but he's joyful, unconcerned, and above everything, able to accept himself nevertheless.
"I saw at once that it was the long-prepared, long-awaited and long-feared war between men and machines, now at last broken out"
ReplyDeleteThis was very confusing to me because Harry and Hermine begin in Pablo's theater, and end up here? What's going on? Why is it a fight between man and machine? My interpretation is that machine could symbolize how people reflect their personality off of other things, and how this resembles how machines are uniform, and repetitious, so Machines could be the man-part, and the people could be the wolf-part of Harry's personality, and the whole war could be a symbolization of Harry's internal struggle that he had just overcame through looking at the mirror and laughing at himself, destroying the image of the two entities fighting.
"'Yes' said I, 'what we are doing is probably mad, and probably it is good and necessary all the same. It is not a good thing when man overstrains his reason and tries to reduce to rational order matters that are not susceptible of rational treatment'" (188)
ReplyDeleteThis quote is interesting to me, but it is also very confusing. I see that Harry has really reduced his train of thought and has begun to think differently. What Harry is expressing here is that the right choice can be a crazy choice, and that things aren't clear cut. The last sentece really confused me. It fits in the context, but what I really would like to know is:
Is Harry expressing acceptance of his loss of control here? Does he truly believe that a complete loss of control/madness is really beneficial? Does this madness benefit him?
I had never thought about the idea of choices involved with Steppenwolf. This makes me wonder if Steppenwolf really has in choice in the way things happen. In many ways it seems like he doesn't really have control of himself or the situations around him. I think letting go of whatever control he had previously held on to helps Harry.
DeleteI think that what Harry means by the last sentence is that not everything in the world runs according to a set of rational rules; there are some things that act randomly in their own fashion...
Delete"The best of all, however, was that my schoolfriend, Gustav, turned up close beside me. I had lost sight of him for dozens of years, the wildest, strongest, most eager and venturesome of the friends of my childhood," (181).
ReplyDeleteThis situation is reminiscent of Harry's reminders of his childhood friend Herman through Hermine. For some reason, Harry's childhood, and especially his friends from his childhood, keep turning up. This makes me wonder if this has something to do with another part of himself, which is the part that is outgoing and adventurous. This could mean that Steppenwolf is again finding this part of himself. It could be that, having forgotten his friend, Harry also forgot the possibilities for adventure in his life. It reflects a desire to go back to youth, maybe older than childhood, in which such exploits were possible. There is a freeing aspect of this return which may appeal to him.
"It filled me with genuine remorse. Who could say how pretty a face it might adorn? Good God, though we did play the brigand and we might at least emulate the illustrious and spare pretty women. Gustav, however, had already fired," (183).
I wonder about the difference between Harry and Gustav, where one is unable to fire at the possibility of a pretty woman. Harry is stuck in his old world, where he has a reverence for things like this. Gustav is in this new world full of violence and without true loyalty, which includes loyalty to ideals from Harry's world. Is there a part of Harry that wants to live without his ideals? It also strikes me as a bit twisted that It matters to them whether the person they shoot is attractive or not. It's a strange aspect of discrimination, that it would matter how the person being shot looks, when a person is still being shot. Honestly, though, Steppenwolf would probably not even think of this, wanting to preserve some bit of beauty in a world of destruction. Could this be a statement on our world, where beauty is not valued?
There is definitely a part of Harry that wants to live without his ideals. It's the same part of him that wants to be part of the group: he wants to give up his responsibilities and not have to care or worry about his ideals that he believes he must uphold. I also wonder about whether Gustav is supposed to be a mockery of our society, with Harry trying to point out its flaws. I think our society does value beauty in the same shallow way that Harry and Gustav are, and two men from our world would probably act similarly in this situation.
Delete"Why did you shoot on us?"
ReplyDelete"For exceeding the speed limit."
"We were not traveling at more than normal speed."
"What was normal yesterday is no longer normal today" (184).
This section of dialogue interested me. Harry and Gustav are shooting at innocent people for stupid reasons. This reminds me of the accusations that occur in the Crucible. The girls accuse innocent people of witchery, just like Harry and Gustav are shooting at innocent people. Also, the sense that what is "normal" has changed relates to the Crucible; witchery was uncommon one day, then sprouting everywhere the next due to the actions of a group of people...
"Machinery as the last and most sublime invention of the human mind. With its aid, men would be equal to the gods" (181).
This quote immediately caught my attention because of the "equal to the gods" part. It reminds me of how Harry is trying to become equal to the immortals. But according to the treatise and Hermine, in order to become equal to the immortals, Harry has to understand his souls and learn to laugh. This quote shows an alternate method; it says that men become immortal with the aid of machines. Why are there different methods mentioned in the novel?
In response to Robert's second quote, I think that maybe they do this to show Harry that there is no one answer, but whichever path he chooses to take (like the doors) will lead him or show him what he desires.
Delete"Set factories afire at last! Make a little room on the crippled earth! Depopulate it so that the grass may grow again, and woods, meadows, heather, stream and moor return to this world of dust and concrete." (180)
ReplyDeleteThis is very reminiscent of We, with the green country outside of the city contrasting the barren landscape of the city. It is also reminiscent of 1984 when Winston and that woman go out to the countryside to be safe from the city and the spying of the Party.
"There aren't any police and such like any more. We can choose, Dora. Either we stay quietly up here and shoot down every car that tries to pass, or else we can take a car and drive off in it and let others shoot at us. It's all the same." (188)
This is confusing to me because it implies that there are absolutely only two courses of action and no possibility of mediating the two sides. How does this relate to Harry's changing?
The two courses of action can be interpreted as his blind shooting down of civilization, which is an acceptance of his more wolfish side, him just suppressing everything about organized society, and feeling guilty about it once he gets to know specific people from it better (Hermine, Maria, etc). The idea of driving off in the car and letting others shoot at them it him accepting bourgeois society, but he feels like he can never fit in with organized society and therefore other people 'shooting at them' may be a reference to them not accepting him into organized society because he's too strange.
Delete‘“We were not traveling at more than normal speed”
ReplyDelete“What was normal yesterday is no longer normal today, Mr. Attorney General. We are of the opinion that whatever speed a motorcar travels is too great. We are destroying all cars and all other machines also”’ (184)
This quote immediately made me think of 1984 in its wording. In 1984 the sweeping changes brought along by the party take effect and a new normal quickly succeeds over the old. This man has his chauffeur shot and wonders why, and was given the reason that he was speeding. The Attorney General must accept the idea that the world can quickly change and he has to keep up with times and accept it as fact, like how in 1984 things as big as wars could change in an instant and the people of Oceania had to accept it as fact. They had always been at war with Eurasia, and Eastasia had always been their allies.
“Are you shooting every one, without distinction?”
“Certainly” (185)
…
“Could you find it in you to shoot at this good fellow and make a hole in his head? God knows, I couldn’t”
“You’re not asked to” (189)
This section of dialogue is a direct contradiction. When talking with the Attorney General, Gustav says that they will shoot everyone. However, later on Harry and Gustav agree that they can’t kill the man after seeing him be merry. This is confusing to me, as they seem to not have a very clear path to follow(not that anything is clear when you’re seeing visions of yourself with your friend killing random strangers in a magic theater in the middle of the night, but still). As well, I feel like there’s a connection here between all this and the fact that they keep talking about how their sniping fest is ‘war’, but I’m not sure how to phrase it. Why do they have this contradiction in them and does it connect at all to real life warfare?
I think it says something about people and life in general, but maybe not war. THe reason Harry felt like he could no longer kill that man was because he was no longer a stranger to him and was able to make a distinction between him. He learned something about him, making him more human and not just something to be shot at with a personality, a life, family, dreams, and goals. People feel they can do anything as bad as kill someone as long as they know nothing about them, but as soon as they learn something about the person then they have trouable bringing themselves to kill that same person because it seems more immoral.
Delete"I saw at once that it was the long-prepared, long-awaited, and long feared war between men and machine, now at last broken out." (180) This whole machine and war image reminds me of We and 1984. However, if Harry is supposedly against war why does he see this behind one of the doors when these doors are supposed to show what his soul desires? What is the significance of this war?
ReplyDelete"I joined the battle joyfully." This confuses me a lot. Why does he join the battle joyfully? I thought he was against war. Is it from his desire to be a part of something bigger than himself? I say that because of his description of the look in the peoples eyes all being the same makes them all seem like one larger unit of people rather than a group of individuals fighting for their beliefs.
"I saw at once that it was the long-prepared, long-awaited and long-feared war between men and machines, now at last broken out" (180).
ReplyDeleteThis quote puts Harry's hate for modernism into perspective for me. It also connects to the dystopian novels we read, especially we, in the fact that machines play an important role in life, only in Steppenwolf they are bad whereas in We they are depended on for literally everything.
"Oh, Lord, that's a matter of taste, so we can leave it out of account-though now you mention it, I rather think we might take the other side, since at bottom it's all the same, of course" (182). The end of this quote confuses me. Why would Gustav and Harry take sides if they aren't confident in what they believe in? This flexibility is completely against what Harry used to believe in, is it a new trait that Pablo taught him, or is he just going along with Gustav?
"Quite true. Only we do not kill from duty, but pleasure, or much more, rather, from displeasure and despair of the world. For this reason we find a certain amusement in killing people. Has it never amused you?"
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting how pleasure and displeasure are completely justified reasons to kill people, but I suppose it is in this situation because it is in the middle of war. But I do not understand why they find amusement when their freason for killing is from despair. When it is from despair then it becomes you duty to end the despair, whether it be through killing or other means.And when it becomes your duty one tends to lose all enjoyment in it because they are not doing it by choice.
Whether Gustav will realize it or not, do you think that he is killing these people because of some sense of duty?
"Why did you shoot on us?"
Delete"For exceeding the speed limit."
This felt like a ridiculous reason to me to kill someone, which made me think of The Trial (I know we did not read it, but we did watch part of it.)THey did not give reason to arrest him, but they still did it none the less and he never really directly asked them what he did wrong. THis man that was shot at just basically accepts this as a semi-valid reason.